Tabwyo wrote:
You defending him against unfair criticism??I don't think this is unfair criticism no but you need to be consistent thats all, if this guy is a criminal, why not get every one who has a record for crime or drugs, lets kick them out of the UFC. Lets see how many are left, lets see who has never had a street fight for money and has never done illegal drugs and has never had to do something wrong for self gain. All those guys who are 'bad' for the sport are the ones putting people on seats and making the money for MMA, I think guys like Brock and Kimbo are good for the sport, they bring in alot more fans from different places and we like to point at them and say they are the bad guys cos they talk smack too but they haven't got a black belt, they fight under the same rules and have to prove themselves as much as anyone else, in Brock's case the fans were crying out for him to get a title shot, he got it and proved himself. Kimbo has certainly not proved himself, I think he is a rubbish MMA fighter tbh but I respect him because he has a good attitude towards the criticism he gets.

Just how in the hell am I not consistant?? I don't miss many chances to speak my mind. But I am most always very consistant in my point of view. You going on as if we are picking on you is in no way evidence that we are flexing our "ego". I won't put my experience aside and speak strictly from a fans POV. Because I am not strictly a fan.

Quit getting butthurt over the fact that we don't change our minds and agree with you. I like your arguments. You are a very well spoken and educated fan. Just because you present a good case from your POV and we don't agree doesn't mean we are picking on you.

BTW, I haven't said anything about Kimbo or his background. Personally I think they shouldn't touch him. Just because you bring in a ton of fans doesn't mean you are helping the image of the sport one bit.

moored26 wrote:
I don't think this is unfair criticism no but you need to be consistent thats all, if this guy is a criminal, why not get every one who has a record for crime or drugs, lets kick them out of the UFC. Lets see how many are left, lets see who has never had a street fight for money and has never done illegal drugs and has never had to do something wrong for self gain. All those guys who are 'bad' for the sport are the ones putting people on seats and making the money for MMA, I think guys like Brock and Kimbo are good for the sport, they bring in alot more fans from different places and we like to point at them and say they are the bad guys cos they talk smack too but they haven't got a black belt, they fight under the same rules and have to prove themselves as much as anyone else, in Brock's case the fans were crying out for him to get a title shot, he got it and proved himself. Kimbo has certainly not proved himself, I think he is a rubbish MMA fighter tbh but I respect him because he has a good attitude towards the criticism he gets.

Yeah- this is great for the sport... See the video below. Just one of many examples of this idiot on YouTube. Barry Bonds puts butts in seats because of the steroids scandal, but I don't think that's been good for baseball. While I definitely don't condone or approve of the drug use, etc- I will say that they weren't flamboyantly showing their crimes on YouTube and promoting it. I wouldn't have NEAR the problem with Kimbo if he came to the UFC without the HUGE controversial video taped background of his. I don't like Melvin Guillard or his cocaine use- but he wasn't promoting videos of him doing coke for all the world to see. It came back in a drug test- not a publicized and promoted video. If Kimbo wants to have his illegal street fights for money- that's one thing. But keep in mind that his YouTube videos weren't making him any money- the fights were. So by him putting all of his criminal activity on YouTube, he was simply promoting it like it was a positive thing.

And nevermind my ego- I said experience. I think it's ridiculous to say "throw out your years of experience" and just be a fan. I'm not just a fan. While you make educated arguments about your perception of the fighters that you support, I am doing the same thing. Just because we're not on the same side of the argument doesn't make my point any less valid than yours.

Yeah-- I'd want this guy promoting my company's image:

Tabwyo wrote:

Quit getting butthurt over the fact that we don't change our minds and agree with you. I like your arguments. You are a very well spoken and educated fan. Just because you present a good case from your POV and we don't agree doesn't mean we are picking on you.
Ok I apologize Tabwyo, I was just mixing you and Richards arguments up, ye seem to have the same opinion on a lot of things and I feel like I am constantly arguing the two of you but I am not butthurt, I accepted their opinions already but then Richard opened up and went on about me saying that you guys were unfairly criticizing Brock and Kimbo and said that because you guys have a fight record then it must change your opinion on the subject, almost pointing out that unless I have a record then I wont understand his POV.

You guys have had more involvement in the sport thus far but it is not like Kimbo is taking away from your hand in developing the sport, its not like Kimbo took YOUR place of TUF 10, he has been victimized by a lot of fans because he was built up by showtime and sold as the poster boy there, they hated him because he was getting paid so much due to the fact he had made his fame online.

I am not asking for you guys to change your mind, I accepted his points of view already but then he started on something else I said, now I am responding to him because I disagree, he responds to me because he disagrees, I don't want 7 moored26s posting on this forum, it would be pretty boring, It is simple discussion, no one getting personal or riled up.

moored26 wrote:
I accepted their opinions already but then Richard opened up and went on about me saying that you guys were unfairly criticizing Brock and Kimbo and said that because you guys have a fight record then it must change your opinion on the subject, almost pointing out that unless I have a record then I wont understand his POV.
LOL- well at least there was no spin on that statement.... Really? Could you quote me as saying that you wouldn't understand unless you had a fight record?

What I was saying and AM saying is that we (as in people who have put in years of experience) might take it a little more personally offending when some gang-banging street thug gets to be considered a legitimate fighter because of some backyard brawls that he won. If you look at the guys that I respect in the sport- it's the guys that have done the utmost to promote themselves through years of discipline to their style and dedication to the sport itself. Neither Brock nor Kimbo have done that- thus the reason I didn't respect them as Mixed Martial Artists. Brock has done far more to legitimize himself, and if he loses his WWE act then I don't think he'll receive nearly as much criticism. On the other hand, Kimbo was promoted to where he is because of illegal activities- and I don't see myself condoning that ever.

There are two ways of looking at his impact in the sport,

1. He brings a lot of money and fans to MMA from the internet videos, I think this is good, it opens more avenues for fans to get interested in MMA and then when they are in they can make their own opinion on Kimbo and Brock. I think the key is to get the numbers involved in MMA and I don't think that they are turning people away from the sport, the athletic commissions trying to stop MMA can point at Kimbo and say that they don't want cave men in the sport but if there are millions of fans then they cannot ignore it forever and will concede eventually, they want it represented well and not by thugs, I think Kimbo is proving he is a gent on the new show, he is coming across very well. I had the same opinion as you guys last week, but I stopped to think about it, I tried to look at it differently and it made more sense to me than my original assumption. There are two ways of getting MMA bigger, get bthe commissions on board or get more fans on board, if we try get the commissions on board then we would have to change our sport but if we go the fan route then the commissions will eventually give in and then we have both, putting aside yours and my own opinion of Kimbo, he helps get more fans on board.

2. You think he makes the sport look bad now because he used to fight on the street, Street fighting is the exact perception of the sport that we want to avoid I agree. You say he makes guys think that they can make a name for themselves by fighting on the street then they can become MMA stars, I think that his wrong, he made the videos to make a name for himself, to get more challengers and more money, I don't even think of street fighting as crime because it is agreed between the two that they will fight, its not like Kimbo has just jumped them in the street and mugged them. I think of it as unlicensed Vale Tudo, it is technically illegal but organized unlicensed football matches are not, he is also playing a sport, a blood sport it may be but the rules are agreed between the two.

TBH my mind is messed from typing today, any more posts will be dealt with later or tomorrow. Meanwhile happy posting I don't even know if I finished my argument above or whether it made sense but I am tired of writing.